*******
.. στῆ δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐπ᾽ οὐδὸν ἰών, πρὸς δ᾽ Εὐρύκλειαν ἔειπε·
"μαῖα φίλη, τὸν ξεῖνον ἐτιμήσασθ᾽ ἐνὶ οἴκῳ
Telemachus stood on the sill, about to go, and said to Eurycleia:
"Nursey dear, did you honor our in-house guest with
εὐνῇ καὶ σίτῳ, ἦ αὔτως κεῖται ἀκηδής;
τοιαύτη γὰρ ἐμὴ μήτηρ, πινυτή περ ἐοῦσα·
bed and food, or lies he by himself, neglected?
For such is my mother's way even though she is prudent:
.. ἐμπλήγδην ἕτερόν γε τίει μερόπων ἀνθρώπων
χείρονα, τὸν δέ τ᾽ ἀρείον᾽ ἀτιμήσασ᾽ ἀποπέμπει."
Mother foolishly honors some get of sentient humankind,
though inferior, but sends a superior man away unhonored."
*****
PS. Had a lot of fun tracking down the signification of
μέροψ, μέροπες which most lexicons say is an epithet of
βροτοι, ἀνθρωποι with "meaning unknown" & μεροποσπόρος, -ον
"'begetting men',ὥρη Man.4-577"LSJ (Manetho: Astro'ogus)
PPS. Perhaps this section is the origin of the dislike some
scholars and critics have for Telemachus?
Sunday, September 25, 2011
Monday, September 19, 2011
Telemachus - Odyssey XX, 124-127
*******
.. Τηλέμαχος δ᾽ εὐνῆθεν ἀνίστατο, ἰσόθεος φώς,
.. And Telemachus got out of bed, looking like a god:
.. εἵματα ἑσσάμενος· περὶ δὲ ξίφος ὀξὺ θέτ᾽ ὤμῳ· 125
ποσσὶ δ᾽ ὑπὸ λιπαροῖσιν ἐδήσατο καλὰ πέδιλα,
.. put on his raiment, slung a sharp sword about his shoulder, tied stout sandals beneath his feet;
.. εἵλετο δ᾽ ἄλκιμον ἔγχος, ἀκαχμένον ὀξέι· χαλκῷ·
.. then grabbed his stout spear, tipped with sharp bronze...
.. Τηλέμαχος δ᾽ εὐνῆθεν ἀνίστατο, ἰσόθεος φώς,
.. And Telemachus got out of bed, looking like a god:
.. εἵματα ἑσσάμενος· περὶ δὲ ξίφος ὀξὺ θέτ᾽ ὤμῳ· 125
ποσσὶ δ᾽ ὑπὸ λιπαροῖσιν ἐδήσατο καλὰ πέδιλα,
.. put on his raiment, slung a sharp sword about his shoulder, tied stout sandals beneath his feet;
.. εἵλετο δ᾽ ἄλκιμον ἔγχος, ἀκαχμένον ὀξέι· χαλκῷ·
.. then grabbed his stout spear, tipped with sharp bronze...
Friday, September 16, 2011
Can Anacreon and Edgar Allen Poe be juxtaposed?
"For being an idle boy lang syne,
Who read Anacreon, and drank wine,
I early found Anacreon rhymes
Were almost passionate sometimes--
And by strange alchemy of brain
His pleasures always turned to pain--
His naivete to wild desire--
His wit to love--his wine to fire--
And so being young and dipt in folly
I fell in love with melancholy,
And used to throw my earthly rest
And quiet all away in jest--"
from Poe's ROMANCE, also known as INTRODUCTION.
1st text, 1829; but this section first appeared
in the 1831 text.
Videlicet nunc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe
Of Anacreon, Prof. David A. Campbell wrote, "Anacreon's
extant poems are mostly witty pieces about love and wine;
he wrote in gay, simple metres, and the architecture of his
poems was masterly... Asked why he wrote hymns not to the gods
but to boys, he replied ὅτι οὗτοι ἡμῶν θεοί εἰσι, 'they are our
gods'...Most of his poems were pieces in lyric metres, especi-
ally the slight and graceful anacreontics and glyconics...but
the SUDA mentions also his elegiacs and iambics... Anacreon is
perhaps the most meticulous craftsman of all the early lyric
writers. He chooses his words carefully and positions them ef-
fectively... He is also the wittiest of these writers and makes
his points concisely... His images are fresh and clearly expre-
ssed... Posterity thought of him as a libertine and a drunkard."
David A. Campbell, GREEK LYRIC POETRY, Macmillan, 1967
Videlicet nunc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacreon
******
"And long may the sons of Anacreon intwine the myrtle of Venus with Bacchus' vine."
from the lyrics of "The Anacreontic Song", official song of the Anacreontic Society of London, U.K.
Who read Anacreon, and drank wine,
I early found Anacreon rhymes
Were almost passionate sometimes--
And by strange alchemy of brain
His pleasures always turned to pain--
His naivete to wild desire--
His wit to love--his wine to fire--
And so being young and dipt in folly
I fell in love with melancholy,
And used to throw my earthly rest
And quiet all away in jest--"
from Poe's ROMANCE, also known as INTRODUCTION.
1st text, 1829; but this section first appeared
in the 1831 text.
Videlicet nunc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe
Of Anacreon, Prof. David A. Campbell wrote, "Anacreon's
extant poems are mostly witty pieces about love and wine;
he wrote in gay, simple metres, and the architecture of his
poems was masterly... Asked why he wrote hymns not to the gods
but to boys, he replied ὅτι οὗτοι ἡμῶν θεοί εἰσι, 'they are our
gods'...Most of his poems were pieces in lyric metres, especi-
ally the slight and graceful anacreontics and glyconics...but
the SUDA mentions also his elegiacs and iambics... Anacreon is
perhaps the most meticulous craftsman of all the early lyric
writers. He chooses his words carefully and positions them ef-
fectively... He is also the wittiest of these writers and makes
his points concisely... His images are fresh and clearly expre-
ssed... Posterity thought of him as a libertine and a drunkard."
David A. Campbell, GREEK LYRIC POETRY, Macmillan, 1967
Videlicet nunc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacreon
******
"And long may the sons of Anacreon intwine the myrtle of Venus with Bacchus' vine."
from the lyrics of "The Anacreontic Song", official song of the Anacreontic Society of London, U.K.
Thursday, September 15, 2011
ODYSSEY Study Group 13 September 2011
DJG David Goldfarb
HMU Hilde Munro
LXD Lorcan Despanais
MB Mark Brunkahl
ML Mark Lightman
Odyssey υ-93 μερμήριζε δ᾽ ἔπειτα, δόκησε δέ οἱ κατὰ θυμὸν ἤδη γιγνώσκουσα παρεστάμεναι
κεφαλῆφι.
DJG And he considered anxiously, and it seemed to his heart that now she knew
him and was standing by his head.
HMU then he pondered and in his heart it seemed to him that she had already
recognized him and was standing by his head.
LXD and when he was turning it over in his mind, it seemed to him in his
heart that, already recognizing him, she stood by his head.
MB and then he considered, and it appeared to him in his mind as if she
already understood and would stand next to his head.
ML Then he was conflicted. But she seemed, to his way of thinking, by now,
knowing him, to be standing by his head.>
Is Penelope the subject of δόκησε? If it's impersonal, why is γιγνώσκουσα not accusative?
Mark Lightman
Mark Brunkahl repied:
I must confess that I had great diffifulties with the whole last assignment.
Maybe it has something with this: When the subject of the infinitive is
identical with that of main verb it is out in the nominative, e.g. ἄξιος εἶναι
νομίζει: "she hopes to be worthy (herself)" while
ἄξιον εἶναι νομίζει αὐτόν : "she hopes him to be worthy". So if the participle
is understood adjectively this could account for the nominative.
If you want to do some research along these lines yourself I can only say that
I found this in my grammar under the header of "Substantives with Infinitives".
Otherwise I can only say: The participle is correct because Homer said so!
Mark Brunkahl
Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2011 06:04:09 schrieb Mark Lightman:
Hilde Munro repied:
Looking at other occurrences of δοκέω in Homer, used both personally and
impersonally, I found several examples with the nominative where we might
have expected the accusative. (By the way, this looking up process is made a
lot easier by the Chicago Homer.)
I do not think that Mark B.'s idea works here, as Penelope is not the
subject of both clauses.
Here are some examples:
Ιl.23.459/60 ἄλλοι μοι δοκέουσι παροίτεροι ἔμμεναι ἵπποι, ἄλλος δ᾽
ἡνίοχος ἰνδάλλεται
Il.23.470/7 δοκέει δέ μοι ἔμμεναι ἀνὴρ Αἰτωλὸς γενεήν, ...
Od.01.227/28 ὥς τέ μοι ὑβρίζοντες ὑπερφιάλως δοκέουσι δαίνυσθαι κατὰ δῶμα.
Od.02.033 ἐσθλός μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι, ὀνήμενος.
Od.08.388 ὁ ξεῖνος μάλα μοι δοκέει πεπνυμένος εἶναι.
Od.17.415/16 οὐ μέν μοι δοκέεις ὁ κάκιστος Ἀχαιῶν ἔμμεναι, ἀλλ᾽ ὤριστος,
Od.18.382 καί πού τις δοκέεις μέγας ἔμμεναι ἠδὲ κραταιός,
Hilde
Lorcan replied: Methinks you are more nearly correct, Mark, on this verse than most of
us who may have been misled by dokei's usual habit of being
impersonal. The giggly participle is, of course, the feminine
nominative, modifying the feminine subject implicit in the aorist
indicative active verb (and also of the perfect active infinitive).
Lorcan ---- POSTSCRIPTUM: I meant Mark Lightman in my reply. Also The main verb of the second clause (which is co-ordinate and not dependent) is the 'governing verb' and has the same subject as the infinitive, and that is why the subject of the infinitive is not in the accusative. viz: Smyth, GREEK GRAMMAR, #1973 & #937
HMU Hilde Munro
LXD Lorcan Despanais
MB Mark Brunkahl
ML Mark Lightman
Odyssey υ-93 μερμήριζε δ᾽ ἔπειτα, δόκησε δέ οἱ κατὰ θυμὸν ἤδη γιγνώσκουσα παρεστάμεναι
κεφαλῆφι.
DJG And he considered anxiously, and it seemed to his heart that now she knew
him and was standing by his head.
HMU then he pondered and in his heart it seemed to him that she had already
recognized him and was standing by his head.
LXD and when he was turning it over in his mind, it seemed to him in his
heart that, already recognizing him, she stood by his head.
MB and then he considered, and it appeared to him in his mind as if she
already understood and would stand next to his head.
ML Then he was conflicted. But she seemed, to his way of thinking, by now,
knowing him, to be standing by his head.>
Is Penelope the subject of δόκησε? If it's impersonal, why is γιγνώσκουσα not accusative?
Mark Lightman
Mark Brunkahl repied:
I must confess that I had great diffifulties with the whole last assignment.
Maybe it has something with this: When the subject of the infinitive is
identical with that of main verb it is out in the nominative, e.g. ἄξιος εἶναι
νομίζει: "she hopes to be worthy (herself)" while
ἄξιον εἶναι νομίζει αὐτόν : "she hopes him to be worthy". So if the participle
is understood adjectively this could account for the nominative.
If you want to do some research along these lines yourself I can only say that
I found this in my grammar under the header of "Substantives with Infinitives".
Otherwise I can only say: The participle is correct because Homer said so!
Mark Brunkahl
Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2011 06:04:09 schrieb Mark Lightman:
Hilde Munro repied:
Looking at other occurrences of δοκέω in Homer, used both personally and
impersonally, I found several examples with the nominative where we might
have expected the accusative. (By the way, this looking up process is made a
lot easier by the Chicago Homer.)
I do not think that Mark B.'s idea works here, as Penelope is not the
subject of both clauses.
Here are some examples:
Ιl.23.459/60 ἄλλοι μοι δοκέουσι παροίτεροι ἔμμεναι ἵπποι, ἄλλος δ᾽
ἡνίοχος ἰνδάλλεται
Il.23.470/7 δοκέει δέ μοι ἔμμεναι ἀνὴρ Αἰτωλὸς γενεήν, ...
Od.01.227/28 ὥς τέ μοι ὑβρίζοντες ὑπερφιάλως δοκέουσι δαίνυσθαι κατὰ δῶμα.
Od.02.033 ἐσθλός μοι δοκεῖ εἶναι, ὀνήμενος.
Od.08.388 ὁ ξεῖνος μάλα μοι δοκέει πεπνυμένος εἶναι.
Od.17.415/16 οὐ μέν μοι δοκέεις ὁ κάκιστος Ἀχαιῶν ἔμμεναι, ἀλλ᾽ ὤριστος,
Od.18.382 καί πού τις δοκέεις μέγας ἔμμεναι ἠδὲ κραταιός,
Hilde
Lorcan replied: Methinks you are more nearly correct, Mark, on this verse than most of
us who may have been misled by dokei's usual habit of being
impersonal. The giggly participle is, of course, the feminine
nominative, modifying the feminine subject implicit in the aorist
indicative active verb (and also of the perfect active infinitive).
Lorcan ---- POSTSCRIPTUM: I meant Mark Lightman in my reply. Also The main verb of the second clause (which is co-ordinate and not dependent) is the 'governing verb' and has the same subject as the infinitive, and that is why the subject of the infinitive is not in the accusative. viz: Smyth, GREEK GRAMMAR, #1973 & #937
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